Tuaono: The Show and Now.
Of This Place:
Kōrero with Pip Davies on what it means to be.
6/6
Quarters
Pigment, art grade resin & re purposed fabric
125cm wide x 64cm high
A peek into someone’s inner world.
A korero* to bring into your own world.
The following conversation took place at the end of February 2023, at AKINA Gallery in Hastings, New Zealand, Aotearoa. I sat with Pip Davies and Sacha Miriama van den Berg, and took in their stories, of what I later determined to centre around the themes of what it means to be.
Artist and Storyteller: Pip Davies
Gallery Curator and Co-Storyteller: Sacha Miriama van den Berg
As told to: Paige Kaye
Six / Te Ono
The show and now
Sacha: I had my background in Hastings City Art Gallery, Muse Art Gallery; so very structured places. And I kind of applied that here at the start because that's what I knew. Now it's gone out the window; now exhibitions are gonna extend, exhibitions are not going to happen. I’m ok with that now.
Pip: But I love that. Because we started off thinking, let's do a show. And so it was like, oh, well, it's around sort of April and then Sacha just said, ‘let's make it January’. And I was so ready.
And then it because like, let's just make it a bit longer.
And then I did an artist talk…
Sacha: Oh that was great. There was a big turnout.
Pip: Yeah, it was different people that came to the opening as well.
Paige: This is a question from my naivety; Is the feedback and the questions that people ask important to you? How people interpret the work, or once it's out in the world is it totally up for interpretation?
Pip: Any interpretation. Because someone's engaged enough to look and think, it’s great. There's no wrong. Because it really isn't a literal, anything. It's just its own thing, right?
So the magic of it is, why do we even make these things? And if you try and think about that too much, you've just lost the point. The point is just to make these things and allow them to be something that other people engage with it. If so, that's great, but I'm still doing it for me. I'm still doing it because I want to know what happens next. And I can't know what happens next, because it's the thing coming out; It's not me making it. I'm just the conduit of something happening.
So when someone is sort of feeling something, then it's a real connection. Because it's like, you get that? Oh good, because I get that. Because I get that this vessel, it just looks like this old cheese. But when you pick it up, it's this sort of seashell (when it's not), and then it sits so lightly on the stones, upon a cloth on a high shelf. And, to me, it was just a magical equation of objects that came together. And I can make a story after the fact. But the truth is, the story isn't what drives it. The story comes out of it. And so someone else's story is just as valid.
Sacha: I really enjoyed talking to people about the work because people are so curious. They really wanted to know, like, ‘What's this? What's that? How does that work?’
Pip: Someone particularly asked at my artist’s talk, “Can you just work through your process for us, look at a particular work, and then just talk about how you've done it?” So that was great, because I never go back and actually think about how I’ve made something. And I remembered the experience of layering and in the commitment that every layer is, it's like life, it's a full commitment. You can't go back and erase what's happened. Every layer is a moment in time where I have committed to it and I've made these marks. And a lot of the process is almost invisible, because I use clear resin dots, so they’re hard to see. And it's not until they're tacky that I sprinkle over a pigment, and even then the actual colour is depending on all sorts of variables. I don't know exactly how much it's going to take. So it's just like, well, let's just see what happens.
Okay. All right, that's good. And then the next day that's hardened, and I go, what what happens next? And it's a story of what happens next, and engage with it until the point that it doesn't seem to need anymore. But that's the journey, it is literally a journey.
Sacha: It’s a constantly flowing journey and I’m like, what the heck is going to come next in combo with you and down at Toi Mairangi.
Pip: I've done nothing since the show, I can't go back to what I was doing. Because it's complete. The work is complete. I did that.
I’ve put things away, put all my clay back into the bucket and reconstituted it because I don't fire it so it's just raw. So I've got buckets of clay that can sit there. This isn't the time to be making.
I've been reading lots at the moment trying to get a sense of of my family.
I was going to be talking last week to a 92 year old relative who has knowledge of the Waiapu Cathedral, the Anglican Cathedral in Napier, because Mum and Dad got married there. The back wall is all tukituki panelling and kowhaiwhai which is done by Cliff Whiting, a well known Māori artist.
I contacted the church because Toi Mairangi said have a think about what you might be interested in focusing on and that church is a rich area to explore. I was meant to see him last week but couldn’t because of the cyclone. I've been trying to get hold of him and managed to get hold of his daughter and she’s like, “Oh dad is so excited, he's got all of these books out’. He's not going to be here forever and so I want to hear his story and I'll give him all day because he’s a talker apparently! So you know, give him his time.
And having that as a focus was perfect, because of the connection to Mum and Dad married in the church, and you know, the Willaims bishops and all the names. And it's me coming to terms with the part of the history which I haven't been that comfortable with. To be fair, I suppose, people have history that they can feel a little bit weird about, but at Toi Mairangi they don't have any cringe about it.
And it's not bad. There's nothing bad and everyone was doing what they thought was right. We think differently now. So that's alright. It's been, what do you do with it? So are you going to do it? Are you going to action differently? Or are you just going to stay the same?
That's the evolving thing. You know, that's that learning and evolving and I am as uninvolved as anyone else, you know. I just want to evolve more and see what we have yet to become.
Sacha: I think sitting here, my thoughts about being a bridge and education and being a safe space for those conversations have evolved quite a lot from when I first started. Having this conversation really reminded me of that. When I first started, I was like, all come in! All Pākehā! I want to teach you, I'm going to show you how good this is! Māori is amazing! This is a safe space and I'll look after you. I put energy into it and I really did. And then as a bottom line, it's just like wearing me down. And I got really quite upset. And it's actually been quite hard to be Māori now as well because there's a lot to wear and get upset about but still want to exist. Still saying, you know being right about being forward about what you think and what you believe. But it exhausted me. And now it's like, what I feel is most meaningful, and I've seen the best thing from, is those that are willing. So Pip was willing, Pip was open to coming into the space, knowing the kaupapa. And I think I don't feel like so much of a push to focus on that, but letting it come along naturally. It's having an openness to learning and evolving. That's where we can be most powerful and make the biggest change. And so for me, my evolutions have been how I approached this, and yes, I love bridging and I still do it. But I'm more lowkey and it's, ‘okay, are you interested?’ Or, ‘if you want to get on, get on, lets go along.’
Pip: You’re not responsible for it now.
Sacha: And I felt quite heavy about it at the start and that has changed. And I think having this experience with you, Pip, has really given me a good foundation for actioning what that is, seeing what that looks like.
Pip: You are enough! You’re doing great work. you're doing great work. And this is why I wanted to be here [at Akina Gallery for the kōrero] because I just wanted to honour you. And in this because this is a continuing story. I've just asked you, I'm gonna be over on Wednesdays, can I come in early so that she can leave early, so that I can help? Being here, it's not a job in offering to do, it’s just something I can do for you. It's actually something I can do for me.
Sacha: Back to we eh!
Paige: This conversation had such a feeling of a communal energy uplift. The community that Sacha and Pip are part of and building feels like it gives energy. The people who want to be on this journey are on this journey, and their contribution is because they want to be here and thats lifting it up. I left this conversation, an hour and a half with these incredible wāhine, feeling lighter, and yes, lifted by our kōrero. I hope you get to feel a piece of that from this writing too.